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Auctioneer::News: BottomFeeder Removed Indefinetly

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  1.  
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      CommentAuthorNorganna
    • CommentTimeOct 13th 2006
     
    Because of so much dispute amongst whether BottomFeeder is or is not legal, I have contacted Blizzard to see what they thought.

    I have been informed that this addon does not please them, and they want it gone, so I am voluntarily removing it from this site as of now.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDeckard
    • CommentTimeOct 13th 2006
     
    I got a copy of it before it was removed, but I won't use it. I'm curious about what Blizzard's problem with it is. I don't really understand what the program does, the only links to documentation weren't working when I DL'd it last night and no commentary had been posted on it yet. I can see the commands available in it using the help system, but that hardly explains it.
    • CommentAuthorElGuapo
    • CommentTimeOct 13th 2006
     
    Well, this is a real bummer. Thanks for sharing while you could, Norganna. I suppose I'll have to go delete it in good conscience. Now that they know it exists, I don't want to be one of the ones to have my account banned as a scapegoat.

    Any chance we can see the response from Blizzard? I'm curious to know as to HOW this mod is against their rules, or if they are just "not happy" with the fact that we have such an advantage over those people without the mod.

    At the risk of raising some ire, I think it's a bit hypocritical of Blizz to allow the functionality of their mod system and then arbitrarily allow or disallow which ones they prefer. There's hoola on the forums now about BC taking away mods abilities (like Decursive and healer mods like SmartHeal) that will make playing the game a real chore, if not impossible.
    • CommentAuthorElGuapo
    • CommentTimeOct 13th 2006 edited
     
    As a follow up, is there any way this mod could be changed such that it only identified which auctions to buy, as opposed to buying them automatically? I'm assuming it's the buying automation part that they have an issue with.
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      CommentAuthorDeckard
    • CommentTimeOct 13th 2006
     
    Posted By: ElGuapoAs a follow up, is there any way this mod could be changed such that it only identified which auctions to buy, as opposed to buying them automatically? I'm assuming it's the buying automation part that they have an issue with.


    After looking at the program further, that was my guess too. It's the auto buying portion Blizz must not like, I can't believe they care about the rest. The rest of BottomFeeder just seems to enhance what can already be done with Auctioneer and Enchantrix.
    •  
      CommentAuthorNorganna
    • CommentTimeOct 13th 2006
     
    You won't get banned for using it. It's not "illegal" according to their rules. It just acts in a way that is contrary to their wishes. (in the same way as decursive acts against their wishes)

    They will break functionality (probably in wow 2.0) to make it stop working. In this case, it seems that the most likely way that they could do this is to make a hardware input a requirement for the PlaceAuctionBid() command.

    Note that this doesn't affect only just BottomFeeder, but also the bid/buyout buttons in Auctioneer's Search tab and any auto-re-bidding tools out there.

    I also think that (apart from breaking our search tab) that this is possibly a "good thing" in that it will remove all the automated auctioning tools out there and make it more fair on the casual user. It will even the playing field a bit.

    The good news is that most legitimate addons can get around this restriction as long as there's a user at the keyboard by simply prompting the user if they wish to buy or not.

    I totally agree with and support Blizzard on this front. People shouldn't be auctioning AFK. Unattended play has always been a big no-no, and I'm really sorry that I produced a tool that promoted such action. I didn't forsee this happening when I first released it, but in retrospect it seems I must have been blind to not. I kind of feel like I opened Pandora's box in a way.
    • CommentAuthorDalamars
    • CommentTimeOct 13th 2006
     
    At the same time Norganna I'm sure not everyone was using the thing AFK. :bigsmile: It is good that they will take the automation out, especially since it's obvious they aren't happy with how it can be used. It's interesting that they exposed it in the first place, but I haven't been playing long so I can't really speak to that I suppose.

    Thanks for all your great work on the tools you have created. I for one enjoy using them interactively. :rolling:
    • CommentAuthorZerohour
    • CommentTimeOct 13th 2006
     
    I applaud you Norganna, that was a wise move. I know I voiced my opinion of the public release of it and I Standing-O you for taking the initiative in calling Blizz for their opinion. Auctioneer is definitely powerful enough for everyone and we need to leave it at that. Although I liked making a few extra coin in the meantime.
    • CommentAuthorKnaledge
    • CommentTimeOct 14th 2006
     
    what was the mod functionality of the thing given to people who donated?

    I thought I had donated a few bucks way back when but I never pursued getting the addon. IS it still possible to receive if a donation is made ?

    What was it?

    THANKS!
    • CommentAuthorOscaron
    • CommentTimeOct 14th 2006
     
    The addon went thru the AH and looked for 'deals' based upon criteria you set for it and either bid or bought automatically.
  11.  
    I think this was a good idea except for the auto buying. This addon can be tweeked just a little to make it more blizzard friendly. Pretty much it is just the autobuying that blizzard should be contesting to. Instead you can have this stuff populate a tab in the auctioneer interface to be bought just like any other deal. So it could populate a tab based on criteria we set and we click on it to buy it. There is little difference in the value here except we actually have to click it to make it legal, this way you cant be afk.
    • CommentAuthorXiven
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2006
     
    PlaceAuctionBid now requires a hardware event in TBC beta.
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      CommentAuthordinesh
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2006
     
    I'm not completely clear on what that means. Is the user hitting an Auctioneer or Bottomfeeder "buy" button a hardware event? It seems to me like it is, but earlier conversations I read left me with the impression that it might be possible for Auctioneer to get completely broken if blizzard wanted to do so, by requiring the user to search and bid/buy solely through their interface. Is this possible (I assume so), and is that what is meant by "a hardware event"?
    • CommentAuthorVindicator
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2006
     
    Requiring a hardware event for PlaceAuctionBid() simply means that it can only be called when executing code in response to a key press or mouse click. This doesn't preclude an addon from calling PlaceAuctionBid() themselves, it simply must be done in an event handler for a key press or mouse click.

    BottomFeeder (and Auctioneer's Bid and Buyout buttons on the Search Auctions tab) calls PlaceAuctionBid() in response to non-hardware events. In order to work going forward, a message box will have to prompt the user to bid/buyout. Clicking a button in the message box will call PlaceAuctionBid(), thus satisfying the hardware event requirement.
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      CommentAuthordinesh
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2006
     
    Ahh, I see now. I guess I was thrown that the Auctioneer Bid and Buyout buttons weren't just calling PlaceAuctionBid themselves - I assume this is because they first must check to make sure the auction is still there, and that the bid is still valid, etc. So we're basically just adding an addition "confirmation" type step to the process now.
    • CommentAuthorXiven
    • CommentTimeOct 26th 2006
     
    Yeah it needs to figure out which of the up to 50 listed items is the right one to buy, so the actual BUY command was being placed in response to the event that the auction house sends when the search comes in, rather than playing the BUY command from a button press.
  17.  
    The part of this mod that im interested in is the script that automatically works off the last page. Is there any chance you could share this portion with us? I'd LOVE a way to automatically view the last page of the AH without clicking "next page" 1000000000 times, and I cant see how just that could possibly be against blizz's wishes.
  18.  
    That code is now included in the SVN version of Auctioneer. Since Auctioneer will now scan backwards to be sure to catch all auctions.
    • CommentAuthorMarth
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2006
     
    Too bad this just means folks will modify BottomFeeder and use their G15 keyboards/n52 gamepads to emulate a keypress.

    Not much Blizz will be able to do about folks using stuff like that =/
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      CommentAuthorNorganna
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2006
     
    Ahh, but the issue was, before it was completely legal and within the bounds of the EULA.

    Now, people who do this automatically will be breaching their terms of use and liable to have their accounts perma-banned. We already know that Blizzard have ways of detecting G15 keyboards running repeating macros because people have been banned in the past for similar automated play. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this is the reason why they do the LCD display thing. (so they can get into the G15 DLL)
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      CommentAuthordinesh
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2006
     
    by "now", you mean "As of the BC release", right?
    •  
      CommentAuthorNorganna
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2006
     
    Well, as of 2.0 (which will happen in December sometime) as opposed to BC which will be January.
    • CommentAuthorSaudiGamer
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2006
     
    Good move indeed, thanks for sharing this info!
  24.  
    Should we consider not using Bottom Feeder anymore then, so we don't have to be concerned about getting banned?
    At least until BC?
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      CommentAuthorNemelis
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2006
     
    Using BTM is not illegal till Blizzard bans the use of the functions BTM is using.

    But what Norg is saying is that Blizzard does not like the way BTM is functioning and with either the 2.0 or BC release Blizz will make addons that function like BTM impossible. (If I understood all comments on this forum correctly)
    •  
      CommentAuthorxgravix
    • CommentTimeNov 24th 2006
     
    Posted By: dinesh...earlier conversations I read left me with the impression that it might be possible for Auctioneer to get completely broken if blizzard wanted to do so, by requiring the user to search and bid/buy solely through their interface. Is this possible (I assume so)...


    Yes, blizzard could arbitrarily lock out auctioneer at any time. There are plenty of mods for today's WoW that simply cannot be written for BC (best example I can think of is the priest macro mods) since Blizz has changed the API. That's why its in the interest of this community to keep Blizzard happy and I suspect a big part of the reason Norganna removed BF so quickly. We are guests in their program and must not overstep their boundaries.
    • CommentAuthorNicolei
    • CommentTimeDec 26th 2006 edited
     
    I salute you for removing this! I really don't want to pay 90 gold for an item that was autoed for 30 and sold for that high. It's like total market breakdown there.

    (Edited See Below)

    Can they actually break them, maybe the add ons but could you like macro(Not macro that's in the game, diff kind) it? (Not saying I'd ever do that) Several MMo's are plagued with that...
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      CommentAuthordinesh
    • CommentTimeDec 26th 2006
     
    I don't understand your question, I'm afraid.
  29.  
    Hi,
    I have a technical question and I hope, someone could give me an answer here:
    I tried to build a litte addon for the AH. It finds the cheapest item from the current shown items and I would like to buy that one using PlaceAuctionBid().
    But I get allways the message, that this function was blocked.

    What kind of "hardware input" is needed, to use this function?
    Thanks for any help :)
    • CommentAuthorRockSlice
    • CommentTimeApr 5th 2008
     
    Runawaycurse: please open a new discussion rather than adding an almost unrelated comment to a thread over a year dead.
  31.  
    Sorry,
    I thought it would be good, because there was already an discussion about it.
    I started a new one, so these can be removed.

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