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Development::Applications: Data Sync - Auctioneer

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    • CommentAuthorjweick
    • CommentTimeOct 15th 2007
     
    Since Auctioneer is at the heart of the beast so to speak, all other in game gold making relies on as much info from Auctioneer.

    in a larger guild like ours, al lot of ppl use auctioneer as well as gatherer (which we love so much the Syncing option there), and since accurate price data is bust developed from as much scanning as possible. is there anyway that the scans can electively be shared with guild. and/or have a way to share/merge data like on a website.

    also too, if i wanted to run an alt (2 computers side by side) to scan AH and do BTM, it would be nice if i could merge that data back in with my main account, or share info between my wife and my computers/accounts.
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      CommentAuthordinesh
    • CommentTimeOct 15th 2007
     
    when we've discussed this before, we realized it would be syncing a TON of data back and forth...enough to get the notice of blizzard long term, and possible d/c you short term. at least that is my recollection. if any of the other devs want to chime in, they are certainly welcome to do so.
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      CommentAuthormeow
    • CommentTimeOct 15th 2007
     
    (or 2 accounts/sessions of WoW windowed on the same computer)
    • CommentAuthorKinesia
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2007
     
    Since mods can both write and read mail I was thinking of a way to send data like this around through the ingame mail system...
    But that opens up _really_ nasty security holes and the potential of ingame viruses (though they could only corrupt your addon settings, but still).
    I thought it would be a neat intellectual curiousity to implement, but a dangerous thing to actually release into the wild...
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      CommentAuthormeow
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2007
     
    hmm I am not sure the ingame mail system would support the amount of data needed

    how about something similar to export to a file and importing it?
    similar to the gatherer data method.
    • CommentAuthorjweick
    • CommentTimeOct 16th 2007
     
    i would be happy even with an out of game ability to merge info like a PhP parser that guildies can upload at the end of the day and DL just before logging in.

    but if traffic is an issue, some suggestions would be.....

    throttlelib from ace ( most of us have it anyway from other mods)

    limit global sync options over time so its a slow filter process

    On demand syncing (query/sync gobally when posting an item) on a item specific basis.

    a full scan can take up to 20 min at times... we use group calendar and never seem to have issues with it passing large amounts of data, but it is a long over time process as well.

    but basically with the auc adv there in now a lot of the data is in smaller intervals and if that could be shared on a demand basis or slowly leeked over time in a hidden channel.

    thanks
  7.  
    Posted By: KinesiaSince mods can both write and read mail I was thinking of a way to send data like this around through the ingame mail system...
    But that opens up _really_ nasty security holes and the potential of ingame viruses (though they could only corrupt your addon settings, but still).
    I thought it would be a neat intellectual curiousity to implement, but a dangerous thing to actually release into the wild...

    well i have a solution to the virus problem:
    the first time auctioneer is run on a profile, a random 10 diget number is generated and saved. when another person would want to send auctioneer info to that person, the reciever has to give the sender that number, and auc would put that number in the mail message to define it as a safe link. so its sort of like a password. this password can also be reset, and there could be an option to disable the feature all together

    but unfortuneately, even if this did go through, a mail message can only contain 256 characters
    • CommentAuthorKinesia
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2007
     
    And at 30c a mail that could get awful expensive!
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      CommentAuthormeow
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2007
     
    Posted By: KinesiaAnd at 30c a mail that could get awful expensive!


    pretty much what I was referring to... you would be looking at about 4000 mail items per MB ( almost 12g ) - with the size of my scandata alone that would be at least 350g ... and I think pulling 120,000 mail item at 50 items per mailbox refresh would test my patience.
    • CommentAuthorxanielyene
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2007
     
    lets look at some possibilities,

    ingame chat channel for sync may be viable, but i think blizzard would recognize that theres 5mb/s of info comin out of a single user in a channel.

    an online database seems like a good idea, but since most databases are around 10-25mb, and MAYBE 50.000 people use auctioneer.... well i dont like the end numbers. if each of those people scanned the ah twice a week, you would be looking at a bandwidth of about two tetrabytes of info/week.

    a mail system is ruled out b/c it would cost ALOT of money to send an entire database...

    i thought about a way to use the ingame chat feature to transfer the information, but there is no way for addons to access this and IF we got it to work theres no doubt in my mind blizzard would consider it a third party program.

    these options are mediocre at best considering the amount of info that needs to be transferred. is there any way to shrink the database? or a way to abbreviate prices and links to make the database smaller? if not, i dont think theres any way an auctioneer data sync can exist on a large scale
    • CommentAuthortestleK
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2007
     
    these options are mediocre at best considering the amount of info that needs to be transferred. is there any way to shrink the database? or a way to abbreviate prices and links to make the database smaller? if not, i dont think theres any way an auctioneer data sync can exist on a large scale

    I don't think it needs to function on a large scale and should be some type of database drive web page you can hop on to download the latest and greatest...but you would also have to hop on to upload your servers data.. that way there is no endless looping of submitting data from people who don't want to do this, this would cut back drastically on data transfer to / from the web server and would give some starting points for the end user to have information in the db to start with. But I don't think the end result is desired for everyone to have the ultimate db.. Think about it this way, its alot like grouping in the game you do want to keep some semblance of fair to it and issuing every BG group identical gear and skills/stats would level out the playing field a bit to much for my tastes :P I much more prefer the option to share amongst friends rather than the the end user world (not that I would TURN DOWN that information at all if it was available) just thinking maybe not something we really truly want (this just comes to mind for some random reason so thought I would post it)
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      CommentAuthormeow
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2007
     
    one limited version of data sharing could be done via the askprice .. so it would only share the info for the items actually asked for.
    and it would also bit limited to the standard guild, party, whisper scope.
    • CommentAuthortestleK
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2007
     
    Posted By: meowone limited version of data sharing could be done via the askprice .. so it would only share the info for the items actually asked for.
    and it would also bit limited to the standard guild, party, whisper scope.


    now this actually sounds like a reasonable implementation of sharing data :) and it wouldnt be so much data that blizz would get angry
    • CommentAuthorxanielyene
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2007
     
    Posted By: meowone limited version of data sharing could be done via the askprice .. so it would only share the info for the items actually asked for.
    and it would also bit limited to the standard guild, party, whisper scope.


    this sounds like a very good idea. transmitting as catagory or a single item's prices is alot better than the whole dang database and seems much more reasonable. I don't see this coming into auc4 any time soon, but it would work perfectly with AA. Just make a module for it and boom! But code in the mainframe would have to be added to interpret the information from the other person's module, or it could be the reciever's module that interprets and applys the information. Now, would making this kind of module be possible with the current version of AA?
    • CommentAuthoryssaril
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2007
     
    you could simply do it like gatherer does it and send the gathered info to the guild/group channel simply send the raw gathering data and if the other person in the channel is accepting data they can parse the raw incoming data themselves.
    also same thing could also be done with the full auction downloads blizz implemented simply send the table to the guild/group channel and if anyone is there they see it like they where at the AH themselves asking for the download
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      CommentAuthorkandoko
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2007
     
    Again yassaril there is a massive amount more data in single simple auction house scan than there is in most peoples ENTIRE gatherer nodes database. Its not something that can be sent via chat in bulk without raising flags at blizzards HQ. The shear volume of chat messages from just a few users would more than likely DC the clients to protect blizzards chatserver from crashing.
    • CommentAuthorNine
    • CommentTimeNov 27th 2007 edited
     
    The auction house gives you about 60 bits of storage per item in the bid and buyout prices; more if you use different items and vary the stack size. Not practical for sharing anything but the smallest pieces of information though. :)
  18.  
    What about using something like this?
    • CommentAuthorKinesia
    • CommentTimeJan 20th 2008
     
    Oh, we could find ways to get it through the current architecture, certainly.
    The thing is that it's too much data and if we made it easy and common to share the whole lot, Blizzard would almost certainly have to change things to stop it.
    If everyone scanning the auction house was forwarding that information to their whole guild it would very quickly kill the servers in some manner.
    • CommentAuthorRickman
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2008
     
    I would like to qualify what i am about to say with this: I know nothing about WOW code, addon code, or anything about the WOW programming environment. I believe that i am fairly proficient with computers, I work with large networks, and know some code. I am also new to this forum, so my apologies if what i have to say seems implausible to the point of comedy.

    I think that parsing the AA database into SQL or php would provide substantial options. A program on the individual computers could attach a timestamp to the individual entries [like another column in the sql data]. Then, the sql data could be uploaded to a central server (being new to this forum, i have no idea if this exists or not, just thinking out loud). A filter on the server could then then filter out the duplicates, using the timestamp as reference. It could be set so that any duplicate identical (absolutely identical, price and all) entries in a 12hour period are purged. The server obviously would not be able to handle the plethora of entries that would incur, and would necessitate a filter on the individual computers to purge all the gray items. The final database could be a simple file download (which i do not know if there is provisions in the code of WOW to allow a program to actually download data from a url), which then merge/replace the current database on the client computer. Although the download time may be somewhat lengthy, a fully customizable throttle could mitigate problems with performance.
    • CommentAuthorRockSlice
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2008
     
    There is no way for ingame addons to access the internet, or have any file i/o outside of the basic Savedvariables.

    Such a project would require the creation of a separate program, and a server capable of handling the traffic and dataprocessing that would require.
    • CommentAuthorkrendar
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2008 edited
     
    It could possibly be made as a 2nd party plugin for wowroster:

    http://www.wowroster.net/index.php

    There is already a Gatherer plugin available, and since many guilds I have seen use wowroster already on their website it could work.
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      CommentAuthorNechckn
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2008
     
    Krendar,

    Yep, there are a lot of options that could work- as RockSlice said, you simply need the server(s) and bandwidth to combine and server all of your data.

    Especially since it's server by server and faction- Alliance, Horde, and Neutral, that is a *lot* of data going up and down. There is also WoWEcon, that does much of this.

    Honestly, though, most folks find that a single scan or two per day on their servers keeps their stats at least as good, if not better, than any of the external efforts thus far.

    Not to discourage you if you want to try, just some things to keep in mind,

    Nikk :shades:

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