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    • CommentAuthorRetard
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2008
     
    When I mouseover an item the "Snatch valuation" is listed near the very bottom. Presumably it tells me how much I'm buying (snatching) the item for. It would be so wonderful if there were an option to display the Snatch valuation figure in terms of one unit. So when I sell Silk Cloth on the Appraiser tab, I don't care about the aggregate Snatch valuation. I want all figures in terms of one unit because Appraiser works on the cost of one unit. Thanks in advance!
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      CommentAuthordinesh
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2008
     
    the various valuations are not actually the "price" that the evaluator thinks the item is worth. they are the price under which the evaluator would suggest making a purchase if that specific item. the two are related, but some evaluators reduce the item worth by a profitability percentage, plus deposit and/or AH cut fees.

    As it happens, I don't think snatch does any of these things, but my guess is that we want to keep the various valuation tooltips consistent, and it might be troublesome (from a transparency point of view, not the math involved) to chop all those other costs up into unit costs.

    I dunno, i'd appreciate other dev feedback on this.
    • CommentAuthorRetard
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2008
     
    The Snatch Valuation only appears if the user has enabled Snatch for a particular item. The Snatch Valuation is exactly the Snatch Price the user has entered multiplied by the quantity in the stack. I would prefer that the Snatch Valuation not be a cumulative total (price * quantity) but rather the precise figure I entered under the Snatch evaluator.

    Let's say, for instance, I'm gather Arcane Dust for some tailoring I'm doing. I program a price of 83s per unit and buy a few stacks totaling 38 units. I only needed 30 so I sell the remaining 8. How much should I sell them for? Well, I paid.... I can't remember how much I paid. So I go back to the left pane in Appraiser and look at the tooltip. Blast! The tooltip gives me the Snatch Valuation of 6g 64s. I know I didn't pay 6g each. So I have to open the BTMS config screen, go to the Snatch list, search for Arcane Dust and see how much I paid (83s). This process would be so much easier if there were an option to display the Snatch Valuation per unit (in the tooltip).
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      CommentAuthordinesh
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2008
     
    I understand your request.

    I am saying that none of the other valuations are per item, at least partially because some of the algorithms used to compute them (specifically the min profit one) are inherently per stack driven, not per item. and I'd rather not have the valuations behaving inconsistently from one another. but I am not married to the idea.

    as an aside, philosophically I disagree that the price you paid for your Arcane Dust has any bearing on how much you should sell them for. You should sell them for the maximum amount you can get for them, given your risk profile for having them not sell, regardless of how much you paid for them originally.

    as another aside, you can always check beancounter (if you have it installed) to see how much you paid for items purchased at the AH.
    • CommentAuthorKinesia
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2008
     
    Also Auc-Stat-Sales can give you a basic summary of how many you bought in the last 3 days and the average price you paid for them.
    If you display this in the tooltip it may help.
    • CommentAuthortestleK
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2008
     
    I was thinking about this and initially I was all for stating that while I agree what you paid is totally non relevant to what you sell it for and nit picking each item isn't going to net you as big a profit as you think it will (you will end up with a bank full of items). I had thought it a cool idea.. at first... The more and more I think about it this is a bad idea this data point isn't really needed, I also believe it could (depending on implementation) make debugging issues slightly more difficult. The concept of not caring what you paid for the item when you go to sell it is something that has come up a couple times in the last few days and if anyones interesting in actually discussing it maybe another thread should be made on this issue... I think that a large amount of people strongly think they can only sell it and come out ahead if they sell it for a profit vs what they bought it for when this really isn't the case at all (if you are in general buying properly to begin with)
    • CommentAuthorKinesia
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
     
    It really depends on the item...
    If the item you are trading in has very different prices on the weekend vs the week and you are buying at one time to sell at the other then you need to know.
    Other items are fairly constant and even if you bought it for less you still want to sell it RIGHT NOW because you'll just lose even more money by holding on to it.
    • CommentAuthorRetard
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008 edited
     
    I resell. I buy low. I sell high. I NEED to know what I'm paying for an item versus what I'm charging for it. Right now I have to keep an Excel spreadsheet or flip through 4 BTMS screens to find out (or manually divide the Snatch valuation by the quantity).

    All other prices in the tooltip are listed as a per unit number (as I have AA setup). Listing the Snatch valuation per unit would not only be consistent with the rest of the tooltip data, it would be tremendously useful to users like me who resell.

    Sales price will give me a ballpark figure, but that's inadequate for my purposes. If my Arcane Dust Snatch valuation is 83s and my avg. paying price is 76s, then that discrepancy could significantly affect my operations because next week my avg. paying price may be 82s. I must know that my purchase ceiling is 83s.

    Yes, I will charge what the market will bear, but I want to minimize expired auctions by undercutting the competition. In order to do that I must specify some key data points like how much I'm willing to go below Market price, my fixed price, etc. Knowing how much I'm Snatching items for is imperative. (Hence, the Excel spreadsheet and this thread.)

    It would be heavenly if there were an option for the Snatch valuation--like every other number in the tooltip--to be listed on a per unit basis. Thanks! :)
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      CommentAuthordinesh
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008 edited
     
    I'm not trying to be pedantic, but I once again disagree.

    I also resell. You need to know what you plan to sell an item for before you buy it, I agree. That data comes from statistics (not valuations).

    [As an aside: what if I suggested that you "lookup" this key price for you not from your snatch setting, but from a fixed price in appraiser? This fixed price can track with the market, and is part of the statistics subsystem - it tells you what the item is worth at any given point in time, unlike the (snatch) valuators.]

    Once you buy it though, you no longer need to know what you bought it for in order to sell it. It doesn't matter whether someone gave it to you for free, or whether you got it for half price, or full price, or double price. No matter what you bought it for, you can only sell it for an amount up to the maximum the market will bear. That amount is completely independent of whatever you happened to buy it for.

    Furthermore, as I keep saying, none of the other VALUATION prices are per item (though I suppose I do need to double check this to be sure). Only the STATS prices are (optionally) per item. The stats prices and the valuation prices are not the same thing. Stats tell you how much the item will sell for. Valuations tell you how much you should be willing to spend on a SPECIFIC STACK OF ITEMS in order to have it be profitable according to your settings. Valuations are very specific to the purchase operation, not to the selling operation.

    Now, valuations could be per item, except for one thing: the minimum profit setting. This setting (as currently written) is not per item, it is per stack. For example, I want to make a minimum profit of 3g50s on any resale opportunity. If it is an item which stacks, I am willing to make less per item, as long as the total for the stack being suggested will net me more than 3g50s.

    Once again, I am not married to this implementation, but it is what it is for the moment. I would rather not change just the snatch valuation to be per item and have all the rest be per stack, but I could be convinced otherwise. I could also be convinced that the min profit setting should be per item, not per stack, but this would require some technical analysis first.
    • CommentAuthorRetard
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008 edited
     
    I also resell. You need to know what you plan to sell an item for before you buy it, I agree. That data comes from statistics (not valuations).

    Do we ever know exactly how much we can sell an item for on AH? No, but we can plan. The plan in resale is to make a profit: to sell an item for at least 5% more than we bought it (AH takes 5%). How much did we buy it for? That's where the Snatch valuation is crucial.

    [As an aside: what if I suggested that you "lookup" this key price for you not from your snatch setting, but from a fixed price in appraiser? This fixed price can track with the market, and is part of the statistics subsystem - it tells you what the item is worth at any given point in time, unlike the (snatch) valuators.]

    I use the Fixed Price pricing model as a starting point and then let matching modules adjust the price according to competition. The Fixed Price is based on the Snatch valuation (which is based on my previous analysis of the statistics of a market). That's why I need to know the Snatch valuation.

    Is that the "fixed price" you're referring to? If not, where can I find it please?

    Once you buy it though, you no longer need to know what you bought it for in order to sell it. It doesn't matter whether someone gave it to you for free, or whether you got it for half price, or full price, or double price. No matter what you bought it for, you can only sell it for an amount up to the maximum the market will bear. That amount is completely independent of whatever you happened to buy it for.

    I agree, but we're talking apples and oranges. The Snatch valuation is NOT the price I buy something for. It's the maximum price I'm willing to buy it for. Whether I buy Arcane Dust for 1s or 79s, I'm not going to sell it for less than 83s because I believe the market will bear 83s plus.

    In this case, 79s is my Snatch valuation. I need to know this number so that I don't undercut the competition and sell Arcane Dust for 80s and lose money on the deal (after AH takes 5%). I'll simply undercut the competition in my chosen range and hope that the market will bear what it has born for the last 14 days.

    Furthermore, as I keep saying, none of the other VALUATION prices are per item (though I suppose I do need to double check this to be sure). Only the STATS prices are (optionally) per item.

    I'm requesting a feature and you're advocating tradition.

    The stats prices and the valuation prices are not the same thing. Stats tell you how much the item will sell for. Valuations tell you how much you should be willing to spend on a SPECIFIC STACK OF ITEMS in order to have it be profitable according to your settings. Valuations are very specific to the purchase operation, not to the selling operation.

    Technically, nothing tells us how much the item will sell for. Stats give us a rough idea. I formulate the Snatch valuation based on the stats--and then the sale price based on the snatch price.

    So I use the software differently than you. Is that a reason to preclude the mere possibility of a simple calculation in the Snatch valuation tooltip?

    Now, valuations could be per item, except for one thing: the minimum profit setting. This setting (as currently written) is not per item, it is per stack. For example, I want to make a minimum profit of 3g50s on any resale opportunity. If it is an item which stacks, I am willing to make less per item, as long as the total for the stack being suggested will net me more than 3g50s.

    I fail to see the relevance between my request and the Resale evaluator. (I do not use the Resale evaluator.)

    To be clear, I am NOT requesting a system overhaul or a change to all valuations. I am requesting a single checkbox in the Snatch evaluator config screen to display the tooltip Snatch valuation (only) on a per unit basis. This check box would be similar to the "Multiply by Stack Size" option in each of the AA Stat Modules' config screens.

    Presently, I can view all my tooltip data on a per unit basis save one: the Snatch valuation. Perhaps I am using the software in an unorthodox way as this feature would be a significant time-saver for me.
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      CommentAuthordinesh
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
     
    first, let me say that I am enjoying this conversation. I am very passionate about the intellectual side of what we do here at auctioneer, and love this sort of conversation. I do recognize that not everyone sees things the same way though, so I want to make sure you know that I do appreciate your feedback, and that the length of our discussion, and of my replies, is directly proportional to the interest I have in delving deeply into a nuanced aspect of the addon.

    I am going to respond a little out of order.

    Perhaps I am using the software in an unorthodox way as this feature would be a significant time-saver for me.

    I think you're dead on here. Snatch is not intended to be used as part of the "resale" process. The resale/appraiser evaluators are the ones we have written which are intended to let you search for items which you can buy and resell and make a profit on.

    As an example, you might do your analysis on Arcane Dust, and decide that you can sell them for 83s, set a fixed price for that amount, and set your "appraiser" evaluator to have a minimum profit of 5%. Then any time an auction for 95% of 83s or less appears, it will pop up.

    Snatch is intended to let you have a shopping list for items you need, where you may be interested in buying at or even above market price to collect them. I understand that you've coerced it to serve a resale purpose, but that isn't actually the way it is intended to be used, and by trying to do so you may well end up causing problems for yourself in other places.

    Perhaps there is some reason why you can't easily use the appraiser/resale evaluators to accomplish your resale goals - if so, can you enumerate them?

    No, but we can plan. The plan in resale is to make a profit: to sell an item for at least 5% more than we bought it (AH takes 5%). How much did we buy it for? That's where the Snatch valuation is crucial.

    I don't know if I'm missing you, or you're missing me here. Yes, the plan can be to sell an item for 5% more. Yes, you need to know how much you think you can resell the item for before you buy one. Once it's in your inventory, though, the price you paid should have absolutely no bearing whatsoever on how much you try to sell it for. The only thing that should drive that price is how much you think you can sell it for. The only thing.

    Once you've sold it (or not), you may need to adjust your thinking on the worth of the item, so that you change the price you are willing to buy them at later. But that is a wholly separate stream of effort, and is entirely unrelated to the selling process.

    After the fact, you may wish to "do your books" to see how profitable you've been, or how profitable your resales of different items are. Here you'll need to know both what you bought, and what you sold, and for how much. Again, though, this data is immaterial at sales time. It's only use is for planning what you want to focus on buying for resale in the future.

    Furthermore, the snatch valuation is not where you should be looking to see how much you bought it for. BeanCounter is. BeanCounter records transactions. You may have bought multiple arcane dusts at multiple prices. The snatch valuation just tells you the maximum amount you were willing to buy it for the most recent time you changed it.

    In this case, 79s is my Snatch valuation. I need to know this number so that I don't undercut the competition and sell Arcane Dust for 80s and lose money on the deal (after AH takes 5%).

    No, you don't. (Or you shouldn't.) You should sell your AD for the maximum amount that you think you can. Regardless of whether or not it causes your earlier purchases to be winners or losers.

    Say 79s is your snatch valuation. Now say that 75s is really the price the market will bear. Are you going to continue to list the item at 85s indefinitely, even though no one buys it, because that is the least price you can sell it at and still make a profit?

    Now say that 1g is the price the market will bear? Are you going to list the item at 85s, because that price gives you a profit, even though you could list it at 1g and still make a profit?

    Admittedly, you are bringing undercutting into the equation now. Here is a guiding principle: never set your undercut percentage higher than the sum of the AH cut (5% if you only sell at faction AH) and your minimum profit percentage. If you do this, you will never be in a position where you are buying an item at a price which is higher than the worst case scenario when undercutting.

    The price you bought the item at shouldn't matter when you are listing it for resale. Price it at the highest price you think will sell.

    I'm requesting a feature and you're advocating tradition.

    I am not advocating tradition because I dislike change. It is because the feature has a specific purpose, which was well designed to begin with, and there needs to be a compelling case made for change before I would want to change it.

    You are trying to use the tooltip valuations for a purpose they were not intended for. Hell, we might decide, upon release, that they cause too much confusion, and remove them from the tooltip entirely. They are there simply to help explain to us, and to users, why an item is or is not being suggested by BTM for purchase. They are practically just a debugging tool.

    So I use the software differently than you. Is that a reason to preclude the mere possibility of a simple calculation in the Snatch valuation tooltip?

    Absolutely not! The fact that we have as many options as we do (much to the consternation of new users) should be a testament to that.

    But we devs are the gatekeepers of the application. There are a multitude of suggestions that people have for improvements that we do not implement, for a multitude of reasons. Some are not in our core mission. Some add too much complexity, and bring too little benefit. Some cause maintenance issues. Some, like this one I believe, are just fundamental issues of design and usage.

    I fail to see the relevance between my request and the Resale evaluator.

    The relevance is that we cannot make changes willy-nilly that cause the Auctioneer suite of addons to behave in inconsistent ways. The snatch evaluator and resale/appraiser evaluator are both evaluators. They have a specific usage, and a specific purpose. We cannot or should not make a change in one that is not appropriate to the purpose of the evaluator, or which cannot be implemented consistently for all evaluators. If we do so, our code becomes less maintainable, and user support requirements increase.

    Which is, again, not to say that your idea isn't a valid one. I'd just like to explore what your ultimate goals are, to see if there isn't a way to accomplish the same tasks, in a way which doesn't violate the ideas expressed above, and hopefully in a way which might even be easier for you.

    I use the Fixed Price pricing model as a starting point and then let matching modules adjust the price according to competition. The Fixed Price is based on the Snatch valuation (which is based on my previous analysis of the statistics of a market). That's why I need to know the Snatch valuation.

    So, as an example, would the following process work for you?

    1- Do your previous analysis of the statistics of a market, to determine the "maximum sales price" of an item.
    2- Set a fixed price for that item in appraiser by setting the price manually, and posting an auction for that item.
    3- Set the appraiser evaluator option to your profitability requirement (i.e. 5% minimum profit)
    4- Enable the appraiser evaluator, and run it while bottom scanning.
    5- As your perception of the market changes, adjust the fixed price in appraiser for the item, rather than the snatch valuation.

    This way you only have to set the "maximum sales price" figure, and don't have to additionally multiply by 95% to figure out what the new snatch price has to be - it's all done automatically.
    • CommentAuthorMikk
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
     
    I'm thinking there's one thing missing in this conversation. Snatch only picks up what you tell it to. Appraiser picks up lots and lots of things. By default.

    There's a way of making appraiser NOT pick up lots of stuff by default. Change the default pricing model to "VendMarkup", and change VendMarkup's percentage from 300% to 100% (or 101% if you can't set it to 100. I don't quite remember.) This will in effect make appraiser not want to buy things at all by default (unless they can be vendored. Hope you don't mind :)). Then you can go in and set fixed prices on items you DO want to buy, like Dinesh explained.
    • CommentAuthormattbnr
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
     
    i tried using snatch to make money and it just didn't work out. i set my prices to like 70% or below so i though hey ill be making a profit. well that didn't work out. i lost almost all my money
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      CommentAuthorHirsute
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008
     
    I think one of the difficulties for using the method you listed at the end of your post there Dinesh is that you have to have at least one of the items in the first place in order to do it through appraiser. You don't for snatch, which makes it a lot easier for someone who is buying something they don't already have for the purpose of reselling it.

    It also seems like you and Retard are coming at the decision process from different sides: He buys stuff and attempts to hold on to it until the market would make it profitable to sell. You buy stuff that your experience tells you can be sold for a profit *right now*. I'm not saying either is right or wrong, but I do find for me (I'm not great at making accurate predictions doing it Dinesh's way) it's far easier for me to buy something that appears to be in a slump and hold onto it until it goes up.

    Just my $0.02... back to studying now.
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      CommentAuthordinesh
    • CommentTimeMay 8th 2008 edited
     
    regarding your first point only: this may be true now, but with the next release you'll be able to adjust appraiser data for any item that you have an ItemLink to (just like you can now do with snatch). Thanks Mikk!

    regarding the second, you're sorta right, but I think it's a red herring. To clarify, I don't care one iota whether selling something right now will be a net gain or net loss, as long as I know I am selling it for the most I can get for it. On the other hand, if I know I can get more for it by waiting a bit, I will certainly do that (especially since I don't ever have problems having all my capital tied up in auctions). Theoretically, if one knows you can hold onto an item for a bit and it will be more profitable later, I have no problem with buying now and holding until that time. ("Theoretically" because I am not a market timer - beyond a few day-of-week effects, I don't really pay attention to temporal market changes, or try to arbitrage in that way.) But the reasoning is that it will be more profitable in the future... not that it will go from being unprofitable to profitable. I would do the same thing if I could list it now for a 100g profit, or list it later for a 101g profit. Maximizing the amount you can sell the item for is your only goal, regardless of whether or not that sale is profitable in and of iteself.

    The fundamental issue you raise is that you have to set the fixed price to some future price in order to do this. I don't see that as a problem. If you think you can sell it for more down the road, that future price should be your fixed price, and (simplistically) you shouldn't try to sell it at any lower price until then.
    • CommentAuthorRetard
    • CommentTimeMay 9th 2008 edited
     
    first, let me say that I am enjoying this conversation. I am very passionate about the intellectual side of what we do here at auctioneer, and love this sort of conversation. I do recognize that not everyone sees things the same way though, so I want to make sure you know that I do appreciate your feedback, and that the length of our discussion, and of my replies, is directly proportional to the interest I have in delving deeply into a nuanced aspect of the addon.

    I appreciate that, and you know I think you guys do a great job--not just on the software but on the support (you especially) and the innovation of new features. (I just saw the Automagic feature for the first time tonight and can't wait to check that out!) Honestly, I'm surprised AA is free considering the product and service.

    With regard to this particular thread and request, I agree with you that "not everyone sees things the same way". I could be wrong, but I see that as our fundamental disagreement here. As Hirsute pointed out, you and I "are coming at the decision process from different sides" and "[n]either is right or wrong".

    Are not all feature requests an attempt to use the software slightly differently than was intended? I urge you to consider whether personal style should be the gatekeeper to innovation.

    I think you're dead on here. Snatch is not intended to be used as part of the "resale" process.

    I am requesting tooltip consistency and add-on consistency. This request would allow users the luxury of viewing EVERY single price on the tooltip consistently--on a per unit basis--thereby saving time and reducing confusion. Furthermore, such a display would be consistent with all the AA Stats prices as they display on the tooltips (e.g. the option to deselect "Multiply by Stack Size").

    Perhaps there is some reason why you can't easily use the appraiser/resale evaluators to accomplish your resale goals - if so, can you enumerate them?

    Enabling another evaluator adds an unpredictable amount of uncertainties, headaches and inventory. I only want to buy a precious few items on AH.

    The only thing that should drive that price is how much you think you can sell it for. The only thing.

    I respectfully appreciate your philosophy. Maybe your way is the right way and better than mine. However, I would prefer to base prices on how much I might have paid for them (which is directly based on what I've concluded the market will bear).

    Furthermore, the snatch valuation is not where you should be looking to see how much you bought it for. BeanCounter is. BeanCounter records transactions. You may have bought multiple arcane dusts at multiple prices. The snatch valuation just tells you the maximum amount you were willing to buy it for the most recent time you changed it.

    To be candid, I'm not concerned with the average of how much I paid (BeanCounter). I'm ONLY concerned with the maximum amount I might have paid (Snatch valuation). If I got a great deal, I'm still going to sell it for the same Fixed Price modified by Matching modules to undercut competition.

    Say 79s is your snatch valuation. Now say that 75s is really the price the market will bear. Are you going to continue to list the item at 85s indefinitely, even though no one buys it, because that is the least price you can sell it at and still make a profit?

    Now say that 1g is the price the market will bear? Are you going to list the item at 85s, because that price gives you a profit, even though you could list it at 1g and still make a profit?

    The Matching module will compensate for moderate fluctuations in the market.

    I am not advocating tradition because I dislike change. It is because the feature has a specific purpose, which was well designed to begin with, and there needs to be a compelling case made for change before I would want to change it.

    Yes it was well designed to begin with. The Auctioneer software is nothing short of amazing.

    The request I'm making would allow users to view all tooltip prices consistently--on a per unit basis. It would reduce confusion by conforming to the pattern of the AA Stats modules which allow users to deselect "Multiply by Stack Size".

    You are trying to use the tooltip valuations for a purpose they were not intended for. Hell, we might decide, upon release, that they cause too much confusion, and remove them from the tooltip entirely. They are there simply to help explain to us, and to users, why an item is or is not being suggested by BTM for purchase. They are practically just a debugging tool.

    Exactly!! As is, the tooltip Snatch valuation causes me too much confusion because EVERY single piece of data on my tooltip is displayed on a per unit basis except for Snatch valuation. So I have to keep an Excel Spreadsheet of my current Snatch valuations because the status quo causes me too much confusion. :)

    All feature requests (IMO) are an appeal to use the software differently than intended. This request is merely for consistency, a quality of which you and I are both fans.

    Absolutely not! The fact that we have as many options as we do (much to the consternation of new users) should be a testament to that.

    I cannot help but wonder why we're spending so much time debating this miniscule request for consistency. Why not give users the option of viewing prices on a per unit basis? This request already exists in every AA Stat module (i.e. "Multiply by Stack Size") and in every tooltip price.

    The relevance is that we cannot make changes willy-nilly that cause the Auctioneer suite of addons to behave in inconsistent ways.

    Consistency is what this request is all about! Please allow BTMS to display the Snatch valuation (and maybe all valuations?) consistently with the AA Stat modules and all other prices in the tooltip.

    So, as an example, would the following process work for you?

    As Mikk explained, "Snatch only picks up what you tell it to. Appraiser picks up lots and lots of things." (Nor would Mikk's solution work for me. Please see below.)

    Thanks again for discussing this issue with me. Whether we agree or not on this feature request, the support here is excellent!
    • CommentAuthorRetard
    • CommentTimeMay 9th 2008 edited
     
    i tried using snatch to make money and it just didn't work out. i set my prices to like 70% or below so i though hey ill be making a profit. well that didn't work out. i lost almost all my money

    Our guild bank started with 1700g. Now it's more than twice that. I've had tremendous success with the Snatch evaluator. Maybe I'm just lucky.

    There's a way of making appraiser NOT pick up lots of stuff by default. Change the default pricing model to "VendMarkup", and change VendMarkup's percentage from 300% to 100% (or 101% if you can't set it to 100. I don't quite remember.) This will in effect make appraiser not want to buy things at all by default (unless they can be vendored. Hope you don't mind :)). Then you can go in and set fixed prices on items you DO want to buy, like Dinesh explained.

    I look at the Snatch valuation all the time to see my max buying price for an item. Sometimes it's for resale purposes (NOT the Resale evaluator), other times it's just out of curiosity. However, the Snatch valuation currently does me no good unless the item I hover over is not a stack, i.e. quantity = 1.

    So take today. I'm looking at AH on the Browse tab and see that there's only one stack remaining of Netherweave Cloth but it's for bid only. I think to myself, "I really need some more Nw Cloth. I wonder if I should raise my Snatch valuation so I can get more of it at a slightly higher price." Then I wonder how much I'm currently paying. Well I can't tell from the tooltip because unlike every other price on the tooltip, the Snatch valuation (and maybe all valuations) is not listed by stack size. So I have to flip through 4 screens to find out what I'm currently paying to continue my analysis.

    So to reduce confusion and save time, I am requesting that the Snatch valuation be consistent with other all other figures on the tooltip. I am requesting a checkbox in the evaluator config screens similar to the "Multiply by Stack Size" option in th AA Stat modules' config screens.
    • CommentAuthortestleK
    • CommentTimeMay 9th 2008
     
    Alrighty I myself have been enjoying this conversation and intended to post yesterday but my post got wiped out cause I moved the wrong tab to another page so I never ended up re-writing it so here we go...


    I have been going back and fourth with this in my head. I know from a debugging point of view the fact that we can say give us a snapshot and we know exactly what the valuations are regarding each eval in BTM.. If someone says why isn't snatch snatching we can tell you why based on the tooltip, The only implementation I can think of that would allow devs to continue to be able to easily spot 'config error' would be some solution that displays both the single / stack if toggled on else stack only.

    This conversation fascinates me, I can argue both sides of this because of how I auction. I do use the Appraiser evaluator for the purposes of reselling but I have it set to 9+gold profit and greens and above only. I ALSO use snatch in the way you do, specifically for high volume / specific items I want to trade in but don't qualify for a pop in my appraiser settings. I buy large amounts of cloth, mageweave and netherweave via snatch specifically for resale(or bandages depending on the stock of the item I have). I do -NOT- like to hold stock and will off it asap in the best manor I can imagine. (thus in part the invention of Item Suggest in AutoMagic [soon to be its own util]) Item Suggest can care less why you bought an item it just tells you what you should do with it based on your weighted settings in its options. I now frequently notice myself doing something totally different with items than what I bought it for initially.

    Now being in both shoes where I strongly disagree with caring why or how much I bought an item for when I go to post it. Like denish, I'm not good at market predictions. I buy items based on the current market stats and go from there, I move items in bulk, I care less what I sell them for or what profit I made on them as long as I got the most money for the item at the time I sold / de'd / vendored / whatever it. I do find myself in the position you(Retard) are in where I check my snatch prices to ensure they are in line with the current market value when I sell items to ensure future snatches are valued off the most recent market data available to me.

    What surprises me in this entire conversation is that we are talking about changing the valuation figures which do what they should do already(They valuate the current stack and tell you what the evaluator should pick them up at) being in the initial position of 'Fantastic idea Retard we should change it to make life easier' then wobbling over to 'No this isn't the right way to go about this to implement' noone has really brought up what I believe is the solution to this issue in the first place. Retard, I'm making an assumption here that you use snatch in the same manor I do when reselling with it(note: this is not this features intent but works well for select items / markets).... Assuming (oh yes I assumed...) that, I think a better implementation of a feature to assist in correcting this problem, as well as the hassle of having to adjust my snatch figures all the time is indeed snatch by % of whatever appraiser stat is being used on the item (with or without market matchers as a secondary option) This would allow the problem to be solved of having to track your snatch prices, constantly verify them, and update them all the time. Not sure about you but I get very tired of that.

    One thing brought up that I look at is consistency. I understand what you are saying about the valuation lines are not consistent with the stats in the ability to do per item basis. But, these TT lines are -not- stats nor is that the intent of them to be a stat. IMHO those valuation lines are merely to assist you in correcting eval configuration when needed. So while I see you are saying they are not consistent I see them as totally different things and they can't really be consistent in the first place as the are not the same type of things. However I think we can solve both problems by implementing snatch by % which is something I have been thinking about getting in and coding for awhile now for this particular purpose of adjusting the snatch prices to reflect the desired future buys based off the most recent market data.

    Like dinesh I want to ensure that you understand we may be getting long winded over the conversation vs just taking the stance of implementing it because it fascinates us. We want to make sure you don't feel like we are just beating you down and saying 'nope this isn't going to happen' because thats not the case at all, this happens to touch on a exactly the point that I believe is why people don't make as much money on the market as others... Those that buy to resell and base their selling on what the bought for are in for a longer haul to make the same amount of money rather than those who just base buying off of the current market then sell for the most they can at the time... not to say people don't successfully do this, Im, sure they do, and I have indeed held onto some items because I knew they would rebound, but very rarely do I do this as it eats up more time then desired that I can simply make a load of money allocating elsewhere and its generally better for me to "take a loss" on an item then deal with it, I am a strong believer in the 'Time Value of Money'..

    dinesh, as a side note I honestly believe Valuation TT lines should be an alt over display not a standard display myself... they should remain for assisting in helping users (or users helping themselves) correct flaws in evaluator settings.


    Note to all: sorry if my post rambles on and is out of order etc... but I'm tired, have a headache and lastnight was a LONG night :/ :P
    • CommentAuthormattbnr
    • CommentTimeMay 9th 2008 edited
     
    if you want to see what your paying for a snatch item cant you just hit /snatch gui and it brings up the screen? and if your using snatch that often shouldn't you at least have a idea what you have it set to in the first place?
    • CommentAuthordgrove21
    • CommentTimeMay 9th 2008
     
    Has anyone thought about writing a book along the lines of "Auctioneer and Auction House for Dummies"? With all the functionality built in to the various aspects of Auctioneer Advanced/bottomscanner/Appraiser, etc. I find myself wanting someone to explain it in very simple terms. Does anything like that exist?
    • CommentAuthortestleK
    • CommentTimeMay 9th 2008
     
    Well, we have a wiki, but since we aren't release, and TBH some of us coders are better at writing the functionality than trying to explain it / do a writeup on the wiki it can be a bit outdated on some points but there is a wiki, and searches on this forum / asking questions on the forum if you can't find it in a search and on the wiki knowledge base is more than happily received. We are always looking for addition help with the project and if anyone has some spare time to either help contribute code or help us coders type out some documentation on the wiki it would be greatly appreciated. The wiki allows for user contribution so even if you only wanted to help out on one particular part of functionality it is greatly appreciated by everyone here at norganna. We do understand that there is a lack of documentation and we want to get it in but alas so much time and so many things to do, it seems that if something is going to take the backburner its generally something that the devs don't specifically "want" to do and that tend to be documentation since I know for one Im terrible at writing docs.,..
    • CommentAuthorRetard
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2008 edited
     
    Posted By: mattbnrif you want to see what your paying for a snatch item cant you just hit /snatch gui and it brings up the screen? and if your using snatch that often shouldn't you at least have a idea what you have it set to in the first place?

    Go the BTMS tab, then the Config Screen, then expand the Evaluators on the left, then click Snatch, then open your Snatch list, then scan through 40 items for the item in question.... *sigh* It would be such a time saver to have this info on the tooltip consistent with every other number on the tooltip.

    Trust me, if I could memorize my Snatch list of 15-25 items then this thread would not exist. (While my Snatch list may be around 40 items, I only actively trade around 20 while others are those rare drops I'm hoping to see someday for which I'll pay exorbitant sums.) And while I have an idea about what my Snatch price is, I need precise details. That's why I use Auctioneer.

    Why are you opposed to tooltip consistency? Every price on the tooltip can be displayed on a per-unit basis except for the valuations.
    •  
      CommentAuthordinesh
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2008 edited
     
    Posted By: RetardIt would be such a time saver to have this info on the tooltip consistent with every other number on the tooltip.

    ack, please stop saying this. it is not consistent with every other number on the tooltip. you may have it configured so that none of the other valuators are displayed, but other users do not. every other valuator is also shown per stack, because they "have" to be in order to be logical, given the nature of the min profit setting.

    you're asking us to change 4 (or 5?) tooltips. one of which is straightforward (snatch). the rest are not - it would require some logical analysis to decide how we want to deal with the per stack min profit settings.
    • CommentAuthorRetard
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2008 edited
     
    Posted By: dinesh
    Posted By: RetardIt would be such a time saver to have this info on the tooltip consistent with every other number on the tooltip.

    ack, please stop saying this. it is not consistent with every other number on the tooltip.

    Sorry. I'll try to be more specific in the future. On MY tooltip, as I have it configured, the valuations are not consistent with all other figures.

    Posted By: dineshyou're asking us to change 4 (or 5?) tooltips. one of which is straightforward (snatch). the rest are not - it would require some logical analysis to decide how we want to deal with the per stack min profit settings.

    Why not just give users the option to display valuations on a per unit basis?

    DisplayedValuation = TotalValuation / StackSizeQuantity
    • CommentAuthorRetard
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2008 edited
     
    I know from a debugging point of view the fact that we can say give us a snapshot and we know exactly what the valuations are regarding each eval in BTM..

    How can you know exactly what the Snatch valuation in my screenshot is when the Snatch valuation is displayed as the multiplied product of the actual Snatch valuation multiplied by stack size? This whole request is so that I CAN know exactly what my valuations are. Presently I cannot by looking at the tooltip.

    (I presume that almost always when BTMS users complain about Snatch not working they're using the AA Stats option "Multiply by Stack Size" and that because the Stats display as total stack value then it's beneficial for devs for the valuations to also display total stack value.)

    If anything, it seems like this feature request would make debugging/troubleshooting easier because in cases like mine where everything is displayed on a per unit basis, devs wouldn't have to request that I modify my display in order for them to troubleshoot. Here is one such example where RockSlice requested that I 'switch off the "price per unit" option temporarily'.
    http://forums.norganna.org/discussion/6822/not-sure-why-btm-doesnt-prompt-me-to-buy-this/#Item_14

    So this feature request would save time for devs when assisting users who display data on a "price per unit" basis because it would reduce confusion and let devs know exactly what the valuations are. (It would also save time for the users who want to know what their Snatch valuations are without having to flip through several screens to see it.)

    What surprises me in this entire conversation is that we are talking about changing the valuation figures which do what they should do already(They valuate the current stack and tell you what the evaluator should pick them up at)

    …Which is helpful only for users who view data by total stack value.

    Retard, I'm making an assumption here that you use snatch in the same manor I do when reselling with it(note: this is not this features intent but works well for select items / markets)

    I'm not sure exactly how you use it. I read what you wrote about buying lots of cloth. I do that too. I use Snatch to 1) acquire mats, 2) acquire items with a high turnover rate that I can resell, 3) keep a lookout for ultra-rare items.

    That's how I use the Snatch evaluator. The Snatch valuation is another story. I glance at the Snatch valuation all the time for all kinds of reasons to remind me of the maximum price I might be paying for an item, but it's presently useless so I have to keep an Excel spreadsheet for quick reference.

    One thing brought up that I look at is consistency. I understand what you are saying about the valuation lines are not consistent with the stats in the ability to do per item basis. But, these TT lines are -not- stats nor is that the intent of them to be a stat. IMHO those valuation lines are merely to assist you in correcting eval configuration when needed.

    I understand exactly what you mean. However, these "TT lines" (I don't know what that jargon means) cannot assist me because they are inconsistent with all other data in my tooltip.

    I'm NOT trying to nitpick here. I'm just trying to emphasize how useless and broken the valuation functionality is when users employ the AA functionality to not "Multiply by Stack Size". It's as if the naysayers in this thread are saying "users can have one or the other--per unit data OR valuation functionality--but not both." :(

    Like dinesh I want to ensure that you understand we may be getting long winded over the conversation vs just taking the stance of implementing it because it fascinates us. We want to make sure you don't feel like we are just beating you down and saying 'nope this isn't going to happen' because thats not the case at all….

    All I'm asking for is consistency. Please allow BTMS to do what AA is already doing, i.e. displaying prices on a per unit basis. Above Dinesh implied how it's bad for "the Auctioneer suite of addons to behave in inconsistent ways" because "user support requirements increase". Yet here we are: 8000 words into a discussion about whether BTMS valuation prices should be displayed consistently with AA Stats prices. I've already demonstrated how it would save both devs and users time. Furthermore, this is a simple request because the functionality already exists in AA.

    This thread boils down to one question: will the development gatekeepers allow BTMS valuations to function with or instead of AA's option to uncheck 'Multiply by Stack Size"? Presently it's the latter--and that's why devs have to ask users to rearrange their display: because the add-ons potentially behave inconsistently.
    •  
      CommentAuthordinesh
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2008 edited
     
    Why not just give users the option to display valuations on a per unit basis?

    Because this will yield to inconsistent tooltips for the same item for the other valuators, depending on how many items there are in the stack. This has been my primary concern this whole time - sorry I apparently haven't done a good job explaining it.

    Here is a simple example. Say you have a stackable item which sells for 10g each. Say your "min profit" setting is set to 1g. Say your snatch price is set to 8g. Assume all other parameters are set to 0 or are otherwise immaterial in this example. Say you have 11 of these items total in your bags, one as a single, and one as a stack of 10.

    For all our current stat tooltips, the "per item" stat price displayed will be the same, regardless of whether you mouse over the 1 stack or the 10 stack. It will show "10g" per item.

    Assuming we changed the stat valuator, it would do the same, showing 8g for both the 1 stack and the 10 stack.

    For all the other valuators, though, you will get two different valuation prices, depending on whether you're mousing over the 1 stack or the 10 stack. For example, the "appraiser" valuator will show the valuation of the single stack as being 9g, because the value of the item is 10g, and you have a 1g minimum profit, meaning you should only buy a one stack to resell if it is priced at 9g or less.

    If you mouse over the 10 stack, however, the per item "appraiser" valuation will be 9g90s, because that 1g minimum profit you have set is now spread out over 10 items. (You can prove the math to yourself - if you buy the 10 stack for 9.90g each, that's 99g total, and since you can sell them for 10g each, you get back 100g, or your 1g profit).

    It is this difference which is problematic. Per item tooltips should not be different depending on the size of the stack you're mousing over. It will cause a tremendous amount of confusion.

    So we either need to just do it and live with the consequences (which i am adverse to doing on principle), just do it for the snatch evaluator (which i am also adverse to on principle), eliminate/modify the "min profit" setting for all our other evaluators to be item based instead of stack based (which doesn't meet the same design goal), or we need to come up with some other alternative which satisfies both the original design aim, and the new goal to have consistent per item tooltips.
    •  
      CommentAuthordinesh
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2008
     
    Hmm, actually, now that I think about it, disenchant won't have this problem either I don't think, since I don't think you can disenchant any item that is stackable. (Right?) But prospector will, I believe (I don't actually use it, but since ores are stackable I am guessing it will be an issue).
    • CommentAuthorccox
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2008
     
    At this time, no stackable item DE's.
    • CommentAuthortestleK
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2008
     
    Sorry for using shorthand, TT Lines = ToolTip Lines ----- I frequently forget I'm not always talking to a dev :)

    Go the BTMS tab, then the Config Screen, then expand the Evaluators on the left, then click Snatch, then open your Snatch list
    or type /btm snatch (possibly /btm snatch gui can't recall)

    Hmm, actually, now that I think about it, disenchant won't have this problem either I don't think, since I don't think you can disenchant any item that is stackable. (Right?) But prospector will, I believe (I don't actually use it, but since ores are stackable I am guessing it will be an issue).
    I don't think DE or Snatch will have this issue if this conversion takes place, I am against the idea of changing the other valuations for other evaluators to work on a per item basis, I -am- willing to buy more and make less profit because its a stack of the items (walmart philosophy)

    How can you know exactly what the Snatch valuation in my screenshot is when the Snatch valuation is displayed as the multiplied product of the actual Snatch valuation multiplied by stack size? This whole request is so that I CAN know exactly what my valuations are. Presently I cannot by looking at the tooltip.

    Easily, because the snatch valuation is based off the stack we are looking at. -- You have the option of displaying how much items cost in the ah at a PPU (Price Per Unit) instead of stack for ease of knowing what you are buying each item at to avoid having to do tons of math. Another reason you want the valuation to be exact to stack is that you can easily switch to stack price and compare that stack price to the ACTUAL number the evaluators are using in an attempt to buy the item. This is actually pretty important in a world where we have no idea how one guy rounds a figure to the next. Its very possible that when I code, I round figures differently from dinesh, and its very possibly that it is the same way for each programmer at Blizz. We don't have a way to see their code to exactly know what method they are using and match it (however we can guess... and sometimes pretty accurately...)

    Fundamentally the issue here is we are attempting to turn Snatch into a stat instead of an evaluator. Now I don't think it would be to hard to code up 'Auc-Stat-Snatch' however I think this might adversely effect those using Market as their stat for items and not something else specifically. Then there becomes the issue of using snatch as an actual stat for basing sell price on which isn't logical and can do harm to people who don't understand that the idea behind a stat snatch is not really to be used as a stat...

    I use Snatch to 1) acquire mats, 2) acquire items with a high turnover rate that I can resell, 3) keep a lookout for ultra-rare items.
    This is basically all I do with it to and why I was really hoping to get some feedback from you regarding snatch by % and what your take is on this. I honestly feel like being able to set up snatch to a percentage of the appraiser value would really be the proper way to get the desired effect. Once you set an item to say 15% below market then whala its set and market can flux indefinitely and you will always snatch at the same percentage below market... This really allows you to use snatch as it was meant to be used "Set and forget"

    This thread boils down to one question: will the development gatekeepers allow BTMS valuations to function with or instead of AA's option to uncheck 'Multiply by Stack Size"? Presently it's the latter--and that's why devs have to ask users to rearrange their display: because the add-ons potentially behave inconsistently.

    Its actually the opposite we(ok by we I at least mean -I- for ease of seeing what I'm looking at as a whole picture) want blown up to the actual stack size for debugging... generally speaking by adding this we are causing a) a re-write of all of the valuations in evaluators to fall in line with the concept of working on per item basis, b) additional complication because now we have to ask a larger number of questions regarding 'what setting is this or that on' c) Asking a larger amount of support seekers to change everything back over to stacksize then re-post a new screenshot etc... Again just to be clear.... Its not really inconsistent... Valuations are NOT stats and they are NOT related to stats. They are the figures in which you should buy that stack below to maintain purchase figures within the profit settings you set for that evaluator... It's just coincidence that there aren't addition min profit settings in snatch and that its valuation figures happen to come out the same (or close to due to rounding) your set snatch price

    At a complete minimum in order to get the ball rolling on adjusting evaluators over from a 'what I'm -actually looking at' to the per item valuation (which isn't exactly the right thing to feed back to btm in the first place) There would need to be code re-work done in Disenchant, Appraiser, Resale, Prospect, Converter (EMC), and Vendor. There will also need adjustments made in BTM itself(to do it right and not hackish). Theres also the possibility (I say possibility because I don't feel like double checking that code ATM and don't know for sure.) that Search UI, Searcher: Converter, Resale, Vendor, and General would all need code changes aswell.
    •  
      CommentAuthordinesh
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2008 edited
     
    Heh, one solution to this quagmire is just to add some options to the snatch option panel: "include snatch price on tooltip" and an indented "use per item price" and create a separate line for a regular snatch tooltip, and leave all the valuation stuff alone.
    •  
      CommentAuthorHirsute
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2008
     
    I think that is what Retard has been asking all along actually. We haven't been clear what "valuations" are versus "values"
    •  
      CommentAuthordinesh
    • CommentTimeMay 10th 2008
     
    oh, i don't think so. i think he clearly wanted the "snatch valuation" tooltip to be optionally per item, rather than per stack. he talked specifically about it.

    having said that, I'm guessing he'd be more than happy getting a new snatch tooltip which has the same info, and can live with having the info (for the moment) duplicated.
    • CommentAuthormattbnr
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2008
     
    Posted By: testleKor type /btm snatch (possibly /btm snatch gui can't recall)




    Posted By: RetardGo the BTMS tab, then the Config Screen, then expand the Evaluators on the left, then click Snatch, then open your Snatch list, then scan through 40 items for the item in question.... *sigh* It would be such a time saver to have this info on the tooltip consistent with every other number on the tooltip.


    Or just do this. i have verified this just type /btm snatch and it brings up your list. so no you don't have to go through 4 pages its 1 simple /command.
    • CommentAuthorKinesia
    • CommentTimeMay 11th 2008
     
    I actually find the existing Valuation tooltips fairly useless myself... I would much rather they all showed their "Valuation" of the item, rather than "what you should buy it less then" which just seems unnecessarily obscure to me.
    From a support perspective we often have to explain the difference because the current status does NOT match what most people expect.
    • CommentAuthorRetard
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2008
     
    Posted By: dineshAssuming we changed the stat valuator, it would do the same, showing 8g for both the 1 stack and the 10 stack. . . .

    Per item tooltips should not be different depending on the size of the stack you're mousing over. It will cause a tremendous amount of confusion.

    I don't understand. Isn't that issue already the case now? The Resale, Appraiser and Snatch tooltip valuators are different depending on the size of the stacking I mouse over.

    Posted By: testleK
    Posted By: RetardHow can you know exactly what the Snatch valuation in my screenshot is when the Snatch valuation is displayed as the multiplied product of the actual Snatch valuation multiplied by stack size? This whole request is so that I CAN know exactly what my valuations are. Presently I cannot by looking at the tooltip.

    Easily, because the snatch valuation is based off the stack we are looking at.

    Perhaps I'm not using the terminology correct. I want to know my Snatch price (a.k.a. Snatch value, or whatever number I typed in the screen that comes up after I type "/btm snatch"). That number is the number I'm requesting to see on the tooltip.

    Another reason you want the valuation to be exact to stack is that you can easily switch to stack price and compare that stack price to the ACTUAL number the evaluators are using in an attempt to buy the item.

    That makes sense. Coders round differently.

    Posted By: testleKI honestly feel like being able to set up snatch to a percentage of the appraiser value would really be the proper way to get the desired effect. Once you set an item to say 15% below market then whala its set and market can flux indefinitely and you will always snatch at the same percentage below market... This really allows you to use snatch as it was meant to be used "Set and forget"

    I think you're right, BUT I need to know my Snatch price for all kinds of things. Its absence from the tooltip for any reason necessitates a separate file elsewhere that I have to maintain and upkeep.

    Posted By: testleKAt a complete minimum in order to get the ball rolling on adjusting evaluators over from a 'what I'm -actually looking at' to the per item valuation (which isn't exactly the right thing to feed back to btm in the first place) There would need to be code re-work done in Disenchant, Appraiser, Resale, Prospect, Converter (EMC), and Vendor. There will also need adjustments made in BTM itself(to do it right and not hackish).

    Does your previous assessment change any based on my clarification that I would prefer to see the Snatch price/value as opposed to my previous confusing remarks about modifying the Snatch valuation itself?

    Posted By: dineshoh, i don't think so. i think he clearly wanted the "snatch valuation" tooltip to be optionally per item, rather than per stack. he talked specifically about it.

    having said that, I'm guessing he'd be more than happy getting a new snatch tooltip which has the same info, and can live with having the info (for the moment) duplicated.

    Yes. I would like to see my actual Snatch price in the tooltip as opposed to the existing Snatch valuation which--if I understand correctly--is the Snatch price multiplied by stack size. I wouldn't mind if both numbers (Snatch price and status quo Snatch valuation) existed as long as the actual Snatch price is displayed somewhere in the tooltip. Sorry that I haven't used the lingo in a clear way.

    Posted By: mattbnrOr just do this. i have verified this just type /btm snatch and it brings up your list. so no you don't have to go through 4 pages its 1 simple /command.

    Very helpful! Thanks!

    Still, it would be even easier (IMO) to see the Snatch price in the tooltip as opposed to scanning through my Snatch list of 40+ items.
    •  
      CommentAuthordinesh
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2008
     
    I don't understand. Isn't that issue already the case now? The Resale, Appraiser and Snatch tooltip valuators are different depending on the size of the stacking I mouse over.

    Yes, but per stack prices should be different depending on stack size. Per item prices should not - that is the whole point behind having them shown per item, to eliminate stack size as an important characteristic. And none of the other per item tooltips exhibit this behavior.
    • CommentAuthorRetard
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2008
     
    Posted By: mattbnrOr just do this. i have verified this just type /btm snatch and it brings up your list. so no you don't have to go through 4 pages its 1 simple /command.

    After I edit the price of an item, the cursor remains in the field I was just editing, e.g. "Buy price/item". So when I try to type "/btm snatch" nothing happens. I must click someone's name below in the General chat window to open a whisper box. Then I can type "/btm snatch".

    It would be great if I could tab out of those numeric fields so that I could once again use the slash (/) to open up a box. (I'm a big fan of the keyboard.)
    • CommentAuthortestleK
    • CommentTimeMay 13th 2008
     
    hitting the esc key once will loose focus on any edit box
    • CommentAuthorRetard
    • CommentTimeMay 14th 2008
     
    Ty so much!

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