Norganna's AddOns

I would think this could be done. I have already encountered repeated spawn points, so I believe there are a finite number of nodes. Also, gathering an archaeology node is a collection process just as with herbs and ore.

However, there are a few significant differences. You cannot 'track' archaeology, the nodes do not appears on the mini-map, and you gather 'currency' instead of items. I've never tried to dig into the gatherer code, so I don't know if or how this would affect the code. What first appears straight forward might indeed be rather complicated or require a significant design change.

Just my $0.02.

First, this really belongs under discussion. I didn't think about that before because I was too eager to toss in my two pennies. I don't know if a mod can move this thread, or if it just needs to be locked and started again.

Second, it looks to me as though the initial part of the process would still work. The is a concrete object that you right-click in order to gather, and you get a loot box, so there should be an OnSwag event. I haven't gotten to looking at the database side of the equation yet.

Third, I won't be offended if you shoot the new guy (me) for jumping in way over his head without having a clue as to how the code was designed. I've never even looked through add-on code before. (however, the language is rather straight forward)

First, Moved into the discussion forum.

Second, my $0.02. While tracking archeology node would be entirely possible I have decided against including this as a feature in Gatherer. I played around for a while on the beta with Archeology and my belief is that even if there are only a finite number of nodes (and I'm sure this is the case), there are likely so many of them that the map would become hopelessly crowded. Furthermore, because you have no idea which point you are actually looking for, I don't believe tracking the points would end up saving you any time.

I defer to Esamynn's expertise regarding the tracking of locations. However, I had a question from one of my listeners who asked:

...perhaps an additional permanent box that will show me how many fragments I have/need for my next item, so I don't have to bring up the interface and click through each race. Or maybe some kind of indicator that will show what race's fragments will be available in the zone I'm currently in.

How practical is that?

Thanks!
- Icesnake Frostfyre
Wowphiles Podcast Add-on Segment Editor

A more concise tracking interface is a feasible enhancement and I will seriously consider this as I level up Archeology myself.

An indication of what sort of fragments you can expect is a little bit more complicated as I don't know for sure whether the race will only vary from zone to zone, or whether it can also vary from dig site to dig site within the same zone. Again, I will keep this idea in mind as a possible new feature.

P.S. - If you are familiar with Warcraft lore, it is often trivial to guess what race you'll be getting fragments for in any given zone. :)

well, i skilled now Archa up to 200 , only in Eastern Kingdom.

So far i had always the same zones and only 5-7 Spots within a digsite. An icon woul help, because if you start searching you get the direction where the fragment will be. You then should be able to see from the tracked ones, which it will be. So you have only to search twice per dig instead of 5+ .

Map too crowded wont be the problem. If you look on the map of sholazaar or storm peak, you pretty much cant see anything else then flowers on the map, because there are so many spots.
I would say, 5 spots of archa per digsite wont crowed the map (and you can disable them if your not searching).

Races are always the same for the dig-sites. For example in Stranglethorn, the dig sites are mostly Troll . They are also all around the troll ruins.
The dig-site in Eastern-Plagueland at the "Quelithien Lodge" is always nightelf. Also the "rare" Fragments you can find are always the same as the normale fragments from the dig-site.

I have now encountered zones with fragments for a race as well as fossils, so the type of dig site is not unique to a zone. That was the original unknown, not whether a dig site could change type.

At this point, deferring to the idea of a cluttered map, I'm wondering if a separate arch add-on might not be a reasonable answer/compromise. The majority of the code (monitoring and storing gathers, displaying spawn points) would be the same, but the database would be unique. Also, the 'tracking' check wouldn't be needed. I'd make a wag that the total code and memory required for the arch add-on would be smaller. Still, this is all conjecture at this point. I'm a bit wrapped up in the expansion to think about logistics at the moment. :)

Next question.

Assume Gatherer did track the nodes, but only displayed them on the Minimap when they would be potentially useful (say just after using Survey).

If you have an incomplete record of the possible nodes for the dig site you are in, and your find is one of the unknown ones, would Gatherer actually end up sabotaging your efforts rather than aiding them?

Now you're really going to pull out the programmer in me. I would say no, because I would get another survey point instead of the find. I would simply start a (manual) binary search between the two points, theoretically finding the new node rather quickly. True, the new node could be even farther away, but even then I don't see how I would be further behind in my search.

By the same token, if my survey pointed me on a line that had 2 nodes, I'd simply have 2 checks to make, at most.

Keep in mind that RED dot survey markers can be off in their direction by as much as (I think) 90 degrees.

I actually think a red marker can be more than 90 degrees, but regardless the point is well taken. However, you're starting to get in to how the tool is used. In my mind, a red marker is mostly useless. It gives me an idea which way to fly (yes, I'm using a druid) and then try again. The nodes displayed in the mini-map would become somewhat useful for a yellow marker, but very useful for a green marker. Green markers are what I had in mind when I was discussing the binary search in my previous post.

I suppose the red marker issue could lead to a "pandora's box" if there are users who don't understand the nature of the tool's usefulness. I don't know if that is a deterrent to the idea or not. I would lean towards a sticky in the usage forum and the support forum with a disclaimer about picking nodes based on red markers, and even yellow ones.

After digging in the dirt for a few hours, I agree that a marker for known nodes would be very helpful. There don't seem to be too many possible locations per dig site, so one marker per fragment should still be readable on the minimap.

As for the problem of confusing players due to inaccurate red or yellow measurings: I often find myself putting down 3 or more green indicators before finding the fragment. This results in quite some time waiting for Survey's cooldown. I'd estimate about a third of my time on a given dig site is spent in the "green" area around the fragments. So while I understand your reluctance in adding archaeology tracking as not to confuse players with inaccurate readings, I still think it would be a very helpful tool.

To prevent players from improperly using the indicators, I have two ideas:

* Disable display of archaeology nodes by default. When a player decides to enable it, display a warning box explaining the proper usage (similar to Auctioneer's warning for fast scans).

* Only display archaeology nodes that are within about 40-60 yards of the player. This would effectively only show nodes that are within range of a green survey kit.

Nimbal,

In order to reduce the number of green markers, I've been using a technique loosely based on triangulation. When I get the first green marker, I try to make a mental picture of the line defined by the marker. I then move forward and to the side of my current location. The next marker points out a second line, which I try to picture crossing the first line. This gives me the point about where the node should be. I usually only need 1 more green marker, assuming I don't actually hit the node on the third try.

Relating this to an add-on, the ability to draw this type of line on the mini-map once I get a green marker would be incredibly helpful when trying to locate a new node. However, I have no idea how one would do this. The add-on couldn't just automatically draw the line because it doesn't know whether the marker was green or which way the marker is pointing. I didn't bring this up earlier because I assumed it wasn't possible. I'm willing to 'settle for' a map of known nodes because, once I have a database, it would still speed up the process when I see a green marker point me at a known node. Perhaps that helps explain my thoughts behind the earlier posts.

If a warning box like the one you have described were to be included, the add-on would have to include a means for turning off the warning. It would quickly drive me insane. :O

Sometimes I am able to triangulate, sometimes I'm not. Especially in rough terrain it is difficult to put down a good second survey point. And if the first green marker is at the edge of the green area, the second survey often points almost parallel to the first one so that no intersection is discernable.

And with "warning box" I didn't mean something that pops up everytime you use survey. What I meant was: user installs Gatherer, archaeology tracking is off by default. User goes into settings, ticks a box saying "Show Archaeology Fragments", a warning pops up describing the inherent problems with this tool. User says "Whatever", clicks away the warning, clicks "OK" on the Gatherer configuration window and will never see the warning again.

I am currently working Archaeology support for Gatherer. The current plan is to start recording data in a 3.2.x release and to actually start displaying the nodes in the 3.3.0 release.

Recording is easy. Setting up a useful display system requires a bit more work.

Archaeology definitely needs to be supported by Gatherer. I'd be happy with it just displaying all possible nodes within 150 yards. But there are definitely a limited number of spots.

I'd suggest, as you thought, to only show up ARCH nodes after using Survey, and only for designated digsite. Else... my PC is already choking from nodes on minimap.
Even limiting to 25 displayed nodes not always helps, for herbs especially.